I believe it has been too infrequently asked why Robert de Scroggs was associated with the de Lynes; the relationship may have been based on familial associations; which was mostly the case when land (in this instance, Scroggs in co. Peebles) was granted by one family to another.
1. Turstin de Bastenbourg. Auguste Le Prevost described Turstin as the father of Hugues-à-la-Barbe; "supposé fils de Anslech" (Mémoires et Notes). An apt note of caution. 'Anslech eut, dit-on, pour fils Toustain de Bastembourg, — et de ce même Toustain naquirent: Guillaume Bertrand, chef de la maison de Briquebec, et Hugues-le-Barbu, tige de celle des Comtes de Montfort. Le nom de Bertrand est d'origine Gothique ou Tudesque; il s'écrivait primitivement Berthe-Chramne; le poète Fortunat, en le latinisant, l'a encore décomposé ainsi' (Venant. Fortun. oper. fid. Brower, p. 88, etc.). 'Les racines Saxones analogues paraissent signifier Brillant Combat, ou Brillant dans le combat' (M.S.A.N., v 10, 1837). Perhaps a generation is missing from this account, as in this reflection by Palgrave: 'Briquebec.— This was Oslac's castle; Guillaume Bertram who held it, the son of Oslac, or perhaps the grandson, passed over with the Conqueror. From the Bertrams in the female line, descended the earls of Huntley and Dudley. From them also the Stutevilles' (Palgrave, Hist. Norm., p. 650, 1864).
1.1. Hugh I. de Montfort-sur-Risle. Guillaume de Jumièges names 'Bertrand et Hugues de Montfort dit le Barbu' as sons of 'Toustain de Bastenbourg.'
1.2. Richard Turstin; Turstin a name common to the family of Montfort-sur-Risle. (See Freeman, 'Norman people' for this proposed lineage). He was also known as Halduc ou Haldup. He founded Lessay: 'L'abbaye de Lessay est fondée en 1056 (ou 1064) par Richard Turstin Haldup et sa femme Anna (Charte de fondation (Arch. dép. Manche, H 4601). According to Ordericus Vitalis, who in the third book of his history, (Duchesne, Script. Norm. p. 489), says, that Ernald of Echaufour, son of William Geroie, married Emma daughter of Turstin Halduc; that, after the death of Ernald by poison, she withdrew with her orphan children to her brother Eudo, Normannici Ducis dapiferum, who held the first rank for power and wealth amongst the chief lords of the Cotentin, in which district Lithare is situated. Echaufour is in the immediate neighbourhood of St. Evroul, and Orderic was thoroughly acquainted with the history of its Lords, The charter of foundation of the cell of Boxgrave, the gift of Robert de Haia to the monastery of Lessay, founded by Turstin-Halduc and his son Eudo, in Normandy; printed in the Gallia Christiana, vol. xi. instr. col. 233. It bears date Anno Domini 1115, and in it Robert de Haie is thus described — Robertus de Haia filius Radulphi senescalli, scilicet, Roberti Comitis Moritonii, 'nepos Hudonis Dapiferi.' Robert, son of Ralph de la Haie, Dapifer to Robert Count of Mortain, mar. Muriel, the dau. and heir of Eudo, according to some interpretations.
Richard Turstin: Baron de La Haye du Puits et le Plessis (Fresne) et Appeville: A clue to his origins is given in the latter holding: The family of Appeville were the family of Montfort-sur-Rille; 'La famille d'Appeville doit tirer son origine de l'une des trois paroisses de ce nom, situées en Normandie, 1° Appeville (depuis Annebaut), canton de Montfort-sur-Rille, arrondissement de Pont-Audemer (Eure); — 2° Appeville* (Seine-Inférieure), arrondissement de Dieppe, canton d'Offranville; — 3° Appeville-la-Haye (Manche), arrondissement de Coutances, canton de la Haye-du-Puits' ('Liber censualis', p. 191, 1842).
1. 'Radulphi senescalli, scilicet, Roberti Comitis Moritonii.' Who, then, was he? The world of cyber genealogy is the 'heir' to nineteenth-century musings about uncharted (literally) genealogical waters. In this spirit, it is suggested that 'Radulphi senascalli' was synonomous with Ralph, a s/o Herluin de Conteville by his second marriage to Fredesend. Ralph was, thus, half-brother to Odo of Bayeux and Robert of Mortain; and, as the latter's seneschal would have undoubtedly been a family member, Ralph, s/o Herluin, seems a most probable candidate. He mar. Olive, d/o William d'Albini II. Pincerna; s/o William d'Albini and a s/o Grimoult de Plessis. These d'Albinis were to have strong familial ties to the Heriz of Notts. On a similarly speculative note is the suggestion that Herluin de Conteville was synonomous with Herluin de Bec, founder of Bec Abbey, who left Gilbert de Brionne's service in 1031. (See 'Heriz'). Conteville: Eure, arr. Pont-Audemer, cant. Beuzeville. 'Conteville serait Comitisvilla, le domaine du comte. Robert, comte de Mortain, mourut en 1090, et il fut inhumé dans l'abbaye de Grestain (founded by Herluin de Conteville, 1040 - M. S.) dont il avait été le bienfaiteur; il laissait trois filles et un fils nommé Guillaume, comte de Mortain et de Conteville' (Charpillon, D. H. 838). 'L'abbaye du Bec possédait de son coté un domaine à Conteville, qui lui provenait d'une donation que lui avait faite, en 1121, Guillaume Mallet' (ibid.). Thus, by some means, the Crespin family (William Mallet I. mar. Helise Crespin, d/o Gilbert Crespin I. - who was not Gilbert de Brionne) were associated with Conteville. These are among many suppositions; Robert de Haie is seen as a paternal grandson of Richard Turstin by some historians; see John Le Patourel, Feudal empires: Norman and Plantagenet, p.34, 1984.
1.1. Robert de la Haye, mar. Muriel of Lincoln. Colswein of Lincoln . mar ---. Colswein & his wife had one child: Picot; 'Picotus filius Colwani.' A charter of King Henry II. records donations to York St Mary, including the donation of land 'in Lincoln ecclesiam sancti Petr' by 'Picotus.' A charter of King Henry II. records donations to York St Mary, including the donation of land 'in Lincolnia … et le Hevedland' by 'Picotus filius Colsuanni.' He mar. Beatrice, dau of ---. Picot & his wife had one child: Muriel. Her parentage and marriage are confirmed by a charter dated May 1111. Henry I. which confirmed the possessions of Holy Trinity, Lessay, including the donations by 'Robertus de Haia, Ricardus et Eudonis nepos.' Henry II. confirmed the possessions of the abbey of Lessai, including donations by 'Turstini Haldup et Eudonis filii eius' confirmed by 'Roberti de Haia et Murielis uxoris sue et Richardi et Radulfi filiorum eorum', by charter dated 1185-1188. Muriel mar. (as his second wife) Robert de la Haye.
1.1.1. Richard, baron de la Haye-du-Puits et de Varenquebec, ob. 1186. The barony was to later pass to the descendant of the Crispin family of Neaufles. 'Richard de la Haie, sénéchal de Normandie, sous le roi Henri II, et sa femme Mathilde de Vernon,* dame de Varenguec' (Annuaire du Département de la Manche, Volume 11). *Dau. of William de Vernon* and Lucy de Tancarville. Richard de la Haie and Mathilde de Vernon had issue: Nichola de la Haye (b. 1150), mar. Gerard de Camville. *Brother of Hadevise de Vernon, mar. William de Roumare.
1.1.2. Cecily de la Haye, mar. Roger St. John.
18.104.22.168. Muriel St. John, mar. Reginald d'Orval.
22.214.171.124.1. Mabel de Orval, mar. Adam de Porte. Adam de Porte mar., firstly, Sybilla de Newmarche, d/o Bernard de Newmarche, and relict of Milo, Earl of Hereford; who by this wife was father of Bertha de Newmarche, who mar. William de Braose II. Odo Radulphus de Fraxineto witnessed numerous Braose charters, often as principal witness. He witnessed a charter of William II. de Braose, most probably his nephew, as 'Radulphus de St. Andre' (Cart. Blanc, f. xix.). This clearly identifies him with the family of Fresnay (Fraxineto, par Le Prevost) of canton St. Andre, near Briouze, arr. Evreux.
126.96.36.199.1.1. William de Porte, als St. John, mar. Godchelda de Paynel (Mon. Ang. i., pp. 594-596).
1.1.3. (I suggest) William de Haya, mar. Juliana de Soulis, sister to Ranulf de Soules (Reg. of Coupar, ii. 284. Referenced in Balfour 1906; pp. 555-7). The Haies of Erroll came from the small seigneurie of La Haie-Hue. Soules was the manor bordering on the Haie fiefs of La Haie-Hue. La Haie-Hue: D'arg., à 3 écussons de gules. La Haye du Puits: à 3 écussons d'argent (Mémoires lus à l'Académie de Caen, p. 39, 1828), which suggests them to be of the family suggested.
188.8.131.52. Robert de Haya (See Paul, James Balfour, The Scots Peerage); I suggest, was synonomous with Robert de Scroggs, who it is said was killed in the service of David de Lyne, s/o Robert de Lyne - 'David de lyne fili Robti' (Chart. Neubotle, p. 10). This assertion was an attempt to give reason for the Lynes grant of land to the 'Scroggs'; a familial basis for it being unknown. David 1. granted a piece of land to the church of St. Kentigern, at Locherworth, for the accommodation of the parson: David de Lyne, the lord of the manor, granted to the same church an acre, and a perticate, or fourth of land, 'juxta aquam currentem sub pomerto ejusdem ecclesia', in exchange for the piece of land, which David gave, for his messuage, where his house stood. This transaction was confirmed by the diocesan (Chart. Scone, 43).
David 1. granted a piece of land to the church of St. Kentigern, at Locherworth, for the accommodation of the parson: David de Lyne, the lord of the manor, granted to the same church an acre, and a perticate, or fourth of land, 'juxta aquam currentem sub pomerto ejusdem ecclesia', in exchange for the piece of land, which David gave, for his messuage, where his house stood. This transaction was confirmed by the diocesan (Chart. Scone, 43).
184.108.40.206.1. Sir John de Haya, mar. Margaret, d/o Robert de Lyne, and acquired by her the lands of 'Locherwort' (T. S .P. Erroll, B. P. 1934, Erroll).
220.127.116.11.1.1. William de Haye. Confirmation by 'Willi de Haya; fili Johis de Haya, miles et dns de lochqwerwer' (Chart. Neubotle, pp. 12, 56-7, 91). Thus, Robert de Haya perhaps named himself Robert de Scroggs after the land granted him (i.e. Scroggs, in co. Peebles) by either his son's father-in-law or brother-in-law; Simon de Scroggs, Robert's son, was confirmed of these gifts, 1208,1211. Scroggs was, thus, an habitational name.
This is a specific Scottish family. Adam del Skrogges, burgess de Haddington, and William del Skrogges of Peeblesshire, both recorded in the Ragman Rolls of 1296, would have been of the same family as the Skrogges of Peeblesshire, part of an administrative elite that went where their work demanded. It is open to question whether they are connected to the Scroggs families of England that were recorded in sixteenth-century coats of arms; although the following may suggest it: 'The assessable area of the manor was rather more than half that of Albury. About a century after the Conquest, the Bishop of London sold it, and the later possessors were the Baards, de la Lees, Barleys, and Scroggs' (Hert. Arch. Soc., Transactions vol. ii., p. 238, 1903). Adam, son of Simon Scroggs, aforementioned, had lands in the Parish of Middleton St. George, Durham, held of the de Baard family. 1. Richard Baard, 1st lord of Loftus, fl. 1130. 1.1. Galfridus Baard, 2nd of Loftus, lord of Nether Middleton or Middleton St. George, ob. 1185/6. c. 1202. Ebor. CLXIV. - An agreement between Rad. Baard and Gilbert de Aytoun (a branche of the Francey family), his tenant in Newton, in which other tenants are named .... Ricardus filius Fran' (i.e. Richard Franceys*) in which tenants military obligations to their lord are made explicit. *He of the family recorded in Haddingtonshire, circa 1200.
c. m stanhope 2011
c. m stanhope 2011